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Salish_and_Roan_004
Contributed by: mythosgrl
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#291260 - 12/21/03 05:06 PM
Alpental winter upvalley travel restricted
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pc22
stranger
Registered: 10/09/00
Posts: 3
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Quote:
NOTE-the following discussion rambles, but the point is that it appears Alpental Ski Area is going to disallow climber/skier/snowshoer traffic on the ski trail that is on the left bank of the stream as you head up Alpental valley from the ski area parking lot, and they are asking us to travel on the other side of the stream. In addition, they are going to require us to park in the lower parking lot, the one by the footbridge that collapsed a few weeks ago, and to enter the woods just up-valley from this lower parking lot - at the summer trailhead. This will add a few hundred yards to your travel up the valley, and after new snowfall it will mean more trailbreaking.
--MattP, 12/31/03
Hey - i heard from an Alpental 'security' guy today that they proposed to ban all upvalley travel from Alpental in the Source Lake direction, most especially the normal winter route that gets packed down and used as the downhill return from the Edelweiss run.this would affect access to Chair Pk, The Tooth, etc. Supposedly, this will take effect next week.
This guy claimed they had some 'special agreement two days ago' with the USFS to do this. presumably the North Bend District Ranger. I'd need to see more evidence before i accept the legality of this, e.g. has the ski area paid additional monies for leasing more area than is has in the past? Such leases must be public i should think.
I know USFS exempts backcountry ski access to windy pass for instance from the ski area retrictions; i.e. they specifically allow you and i access over the logging roads (not the groomed trails on mt catherine) to get to windy pass, because of historic prior use. Even should such a lease for the Alpental valley be forthcoming, i would expect a century of backcountry use be sufficient precedent for us to get continued access.
Otherwise, this seems to be a private 'taking' from the public! Anyone else ticked off about all this privitization of public lands?!
Edited by mattp (12/31/03 08:02 AM)
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#291261 - 12/21/03 05:12 PM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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Dave_Schuldt
spray'prentice
Registered: 09/18/01
Posts: 4098
Loc: Seattle Wa
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I hope this isn't true. Wouldn't the USFS have to go through some kind of public comment process?
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#291268 - 12/22/03 09:29 AM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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dbb
enthusiast
Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 333
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I wonder if this includes the parking lot by the trailhead for the summer trail. Wouldn't the access to that be granted by having a trail park pass?
So we can use the land, but we can't park on their property. Wouldn't we still need to 'tresspass' on thier property (road, lots, etc) though? Have you noticed that the condo owners, sahale ski area, etc have pretty much banned down valley parking? Maybe they should setup a guard shack at the entrance to the valley to keep po' folk (those without at least a '99 Escalade) out.
I can understand them not wanting people to park in their upper lot, but I though the lower one was "shared"... whatever that means.
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#291272 - 12/22/03 10:28 AM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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Stephen_Ramsey
addicted to cc.com
Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 420
Loc: Seattle
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Minx,
Quote:
i'm worried about access to the valley but imagine there will still be parking available somewhere in the area.
When I asked the USFS ranger station manager about where snowshoers and winter outdoor recreationalists should park after the restrictions are put in place, he said he "didn't know". IMHO that's a bad sign.
I'm not trying to fearmonger or anything, but by the same token I'm not too confident that things will "just work out" favorably, without a strong voicing of public opinion.
I plan to write a very politely worded letter to Rob Iwamoto (acting supervisor for the Snlqualmie-Mount Baker National Forest) advocating that a plan for public parking near Alpental be created, with input from the general public.
Cheers,
Steve
Edited by Stephen_Ramsey (12/22/03 10:59 AM)
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#291273 - 12/22/03 10:44 AM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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savaiusini
enthusiast
Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 221
Loc: Seattle
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Wow! This is MAJOR news! This move seems pretty unprecedented! Every ski area in the region that I can think of allows the non-skiing public to park in their lots whether they're using the actual ski area or not.
The only thing I can think of is that this may have something to do with the bridge collapse and the ski area having to divert most of their traffic to the upper lots. But then why wouldn't they allow backcountry users to still park in the lower lot where the bridge was? This sounds like backcountry users are getting  .
The USFS/Alpental needs to come up with an alternative before they go restricting access to their/OUR lots. The area may still be open to use, but if you can't park your car anywhere near there, what's use?
Normally I might just say, "Fuck it! Go somewhere else" but the Alpental area is too convenient to pass up sometimes when you have limited time and need to get your mountain fix.
Edited by savaiusini (12/22/03 11:24 AM)
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#291275 - 12/22/03 11:38 AM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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PHILONIUS
member
Registered: 07/11/03
Posts: 143
Loc: West Seattle
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I just had a conversation with Don Thompson with the USFS, and yes, parking is to be closed starting sometime this week. He has met with the ski area management, and they do in fact have the right to restrict both parking in "their" lots, and use of the winter trail which runs up the west side of the valley and is included in their FS lease. Your $30 trail park permit is no use either, as the trail park is officially closed during the winter season.
The ski area has several areas of concern, including user conflict between day users and skiers, liability in light of the recent avalanche fatality w/ involvement of their ski patrol in the search, and (most importantly,) the cost of maintaining plowed parking which they estimate at +/- $100 per car for the season, combined with the fact that they have to turn away paying customers d/t limited parking capacity.
Don indicates that the FS has no say in the matter, and is looking into alternatives, such as maintaining the Commonwealth Basin parking lot as a Sno-Park area. He did not expect that to happen any time soon. He wasn't sure if the ski area would be ticketing or towing unauthorized vehicles. He suggested that rather than hammering on him, you send emails to ldonovan@fs.fed.us , who is with the FS headquarters in Montlake Terrace and has more ability to get alternatives underway.
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#291277 - 12/22/03 02:45 PM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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savaiusini
enthusiast
Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 221
Loc: Seattle
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I still think that they're going to have a hard time enforcing it. Let's say I head up there in the early morning and go ice climbing. I park in the usual place, go do my thing and then want to go skiing in the afternoon at Alpental only to find my car's been ticketed/towed. To make matters worse, I have a season's pass up there so now they've towed a paying customer regardless of whether I intended to go skiing there or not. 
Furthermore, if they're already spending $100 per car per season to keep the lots plowed, what's it going to cost them to enforce who is or isn't a ski area user. At this point, it seems like they should just leave well enough alone...let anyone park there and save their parking enforcement $$$ for building the new bridge. 
Edited by savaiusini (12/22/03 02:57 PM)
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