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#804867 - 06/09/08 07:26 AM Dynafit binding release
malcolm777b malcolm777b n00b Registered: 08/25/06 Posts: 32 Loc: Bremerton, Washington	I posted in the Oregon forum regarding a lost ski around the Devil's Kitchen area of Mt. Hood. I was skiing down and hit a patch of ice. I didn't lose control, but my toe released from the Dynafit binding. I'm sure it wasn't a heel release because that has happened to me before and I know what it feels like. This has happened to me before and it is usually just frustrating. This time there was no soft snow to allow the ski to stop, it just went skipping down the ice until I lost the ski. Is this common for Dynafit bindings? I know a lot of you use these popular bindings. When I get new skis, I'm tempted to switch to a different binding because I now worry that a similar thing will happen and I'll either lose another ski, or worse. Does anyone else have problems like this? I've heard that some will put the toe into 'touring mode' when a fall could be disastrous. BTW: If anyone happens to find an Atomic RT86 ski around the Devil's Kitchen area (or possibly even near Steel Cliffs) of Mt. Hood, send me a message and I'll give you a nice reward ($150). Edited by malcolm777b (06/09/08 07:27 AM)
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#804872 - 06/09/08 07:52 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: malcolm777b]
korup korup enthusiast Registered: 05/22/04 Posts: 208 Loc: Ravenna	were you skiing without brakes or leashes? I use a setup like this one: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62630 I have also had cases where the toe looked like it locked, but wasn't. Best way to check is to click in, lock into touring mode, and pivot the ski up and down a few times, hard. This cleans any snow/ice out of the toe holes. This should keep anything from happening again. Hope your ski turns up.
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#804900 - 06/09/08 09:37 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: korup]
malcolm777b malcolm777b n00b Registered: 08/25/06 Posts: 32 Loc: Bremerton, Washington	I'm not a huge fan of the dynafit brakes, so I ski with leashes. I didn't have the leashes attached because of a concern for avalanche. Maybe I should re-evaluate my dislike of the brakes based on my even greater dislike of losing a ski. Brakes wouldn't have helped in this particular instance anyway, the ski tumbled end over end on hard ice, then went rocketing away upside down. If I stay with Dynafit, I think I'll utilize that leash setup in that link that will break under avalanche force as that is my primary concern with using leashes. After stepping into the binding, I did pivot the toe a few times to check that the binding was locked, but I didn't have it locked into touring mode. Maybe that would have helped clear out any snow that jammed into the toe holes between the time that I cleared them and locked in. Inadvertent toe release has been my primary concern with this binding as it seems to happen at LEAST once every time I go out (and usually more like 3 or 4 times). Every once in awhile it even happens when I have them locked into touring mode. It's to the point that I am not terribly confident in skiing anything that has exposure to any objective hazard (like I would be if I was on my downhill gear). Now I have to make the decision whether to go with a different binding, or give Dynafits another shot. Are there any Fritschi lovers out there who would like to chime in? The weight and size penalty seems hard to justify.
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#804901 - 06/09/08 09:38 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: malcolm777b]
DRep DRep member Registered: 06/08/07 Posts: 185 Loc: Sultan/Bozeman	Originally Posted By: malcolm777b I've heard that some will put the toe into 'touring mode' when a fall could be disastrous. I always flip the switch to tour mode when I really really really don't want to lose my ski. By doing this, it would take a considerable amount of force for you to release from the ski. You will run the risk of getting hurt and whatnot but sometimes I just want to have my EXPENSIVE setup with me for the descent. What model Dynafit do you have?
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#804903 - 06/09/08 09:44 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: DRep]
Tom_Sjolseth Tom_Sjolseth member Registered: 09/02/05 Posts: 157 Loc: Land of many peaks	Hey Malcolm, Out of curiosity, why do you not like the Dynafit Brakes? I'm thinking about switching to Dynafit, but several accounts of accidental releases bothers me. I'm currently on Naxo NX01s. I'm 6'0, 235# and the Naxos seemed like a good choice for me, but I'd like to switch to a lighter setup, but only if I don't have to worry about a) gear breaking and b) accidental release. _________________________ Heavy and slow.
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#804907 - 06/09/08 09:55 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: Tom_Sjolseth]
wfinley wfinley old hand Registered: 04/27/04 Posts: 722 Loc: anchortown	What kind of Dynafit's are these? I've been skiing Comforts for 5 years now and have had no problems. However - I am super anal about always cleaning the toe-piece and my boots before using them. I use leashes and leave a piece of wire tied to the leash to clean with. The leash system I have uses fastex buckles to secure the leash to my foot. These buckles fail with minimal force (I've broken them many times) so they would release in the event of an ave. That said - if I'm skiing something steeper sans leashes I lock my toe.
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#804910 - 06/09/08 10:05 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: wfinley]
counterfeitfake counterfeitfake veteran Registered: 06/10/05 Posts: 1206 Loc: in ur base	I've never used the brakes but I have heard from a lot of people that they make life difficult. They make it hard to rotate the heel piece and also might increase the force needed to release by causing extra friction. I think the breakable leash is the way to go. I have seen plenty of alpine skis go rocketing down slopes despite brakes, I think brakes just don't work very well ever. To the OP, I almost never come out of my Dynafits before I should. When you step in you might need to clean some snow out from under the toe. Otherwise I wonder if there is some misalignment in your toe piece or something? Does everything look cool? Maybe snap your boots into the bindings and check it out thoroughly. If that's all good maybe there's something in your skiing style? I don't know. I have a pretty bad backseat habit and the toes still keep me in. I actually usually ski with the lever flipped up but without ratcheting it up at all. BTW The ONLY way you should be able to release from the binding in tour mode is if you pivot so far forward that the boot toe flips the switch out of touring mode. If you're releasing when in tour mode my guess is you weren't really locked in- you have to pull up pretty hard and make it click four or five times. At least my TLT classics are like this. I always use one finger on the front tab and my thumb on the back tab and pull HARD. _________________________ That's all I can think of, but I'm sure there's something else...
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#804912 - 06/09/08 10:10 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: wfinley]
malcolm777b malcolm777b n00b Registered: 08/25/06 Posts: 32 Loc: Bremerton, Washington	I was using the Comfort TLT. I am also anal about clearing snow/ice, but sometimes there is snow in the holes between the time of clearing the holes and stepping into the binding. As I said though, I pop out at the toe ALL the time (maybe it's possible that I got a bad binding....didn't mark them to test that theory though). Has anyone ever released out of the binding with the toe locked into touring mode WITH the heel locked for descent? I have popped out with the toe locked WHILE touring numerous times (and it seemed to do so without excessive force).
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#804917 - 06/09/08 10:17 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: counterfeitfake]
malcolm777b malcolm777b n00b Registered: 08/25/06 Posts: 32 Loc: Bremerton, Washington	I know about pulling hard to get them to click multiple times (I can't get them to click more than 3 times though). I still had them release about once every 3 or so outings while touring. I have heard the same about the brakes possibly increasing release force on a twisting release. I also dont like the added weight and more stuff sticking out on my pack when I have to boot up. The more I read, the more I think that I might try the Dynafits again, this time with some carefully engineered leashes.
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#804936 - 06/09/08 10:59 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: malcolm777b]
wfinley wfinley old hand Registered: 04/27/04 Posts: 722 Loc: anchortown	When I first got my Comforts the toepiece was really hard to lock. I found I actually had to put my ski pole under the toe and pull up; after a season they loosened up to where I could lock them with my fingers.
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#804938 - 06/09/08 11:05 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: malcolm777b]
LeeLau LeeLau n00b Registered: 05/04/06 Posts: 34	I haven't had problems myself but I did help troubleshoot a binding that had issues. It turned out to be Scarpa TX boot that had misaligned Dynafit inserts at the toe. There was enough of a misalignment (barely noticeable w/ naked eye) that the toe wouldn't quite engage even when the skier stepped into the binding. We had to fix this by dremelling some plastic around the toe piece. Scarpa replaced his boot. My wife's Mega-Rides also have a small toe misalignment. Not as much as the Scarpa TX but there's just a tiny bit of misaligment - noticeable when she's trying to step into her heel pieces so she has to step down with a bit of force. FWIW - I use brakes now after also having lost a ski down a run when I was too lazy to clean off the ice out of the toepiece and had the ski rocket down the (fortunately) closed run. I haven't had issues using brakes as I pull the brakes up and squeeze them together before rotating the heelpiece to tour mode; this reduces stress on the binding In short, perhaps there's a boot issue? What kind of boot are you using? I had anecdotally heard that some Scarpa Spirit 3s had issues.
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#804939 - 06/09/08 11:05 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: malcolm777b]
hafilax hafilax addicted to cc.com Registered: 09/25/07 Posts: 602 Loc: East Van	If you're popping out of the toe of the same binding a lot I would guess a problem with the binding or the mount. The heel really should come out first in most circumstances. I use Vertical ST's with brakes. They work OK. Not as well as those of alpine bindings. I've lost my ski on hard pack and it stopped. You have to push the brake pad down to twist into tour mode so if you're switching back and forth a lot it's a PITA. It's my only ski setup though so I use them in bounds quite a bit. Edited by hafilax (06/09/08 01:47 PM) Edit Reason: to make sense
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#804977 - 06/09/08 12:16 PM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: hafilax]
snoboy snoboy spray'prentice Registered: 09/11/02 Posts: 3974 Loc: Here, right here.	Re brakes: Remove 1 of the 2 actuation springs. They become a lot easier to live with. They do increase the DIN a little. If you have 2 springs, they are supposedly 1 setting higher. The current crop of retrofit brakes come with softer DIN springs to account for this. They are not perfect, but more or less, they work. Re NAXO vs Dynafit: I have tried both, and feel that the Dynafits are more secure. I have had disastrous prerelease w/NAXO, not so with Dynafit. Re locking the toe: General concensus at TGR forums seems to be that locking the toe increases DIN by a couple of points. Apparently you will still release if you are really beatering... I have not had opportunity to test this theory out yet. _________________________ "Attention, the white zone is for weighting and unweighting only!"
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#804981 - 06/09/08 12:31 PM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: LeeLau]
malcolm777b malcolm777b n00b Registered: 08/25/06 Posts: 32 Loc: Bremerton, Washington	Originally Posted By: LeeLau In short, perhaps there's a boot issue? What kind of boot are you using? I had anecdotally heard that some Scarpa Spirit 3s had issues. Megaride boots. I have no idea if there is an alignment issue. I could try to figure it out on the ski that I still have, but if the alignment issue was with the mounting of the binding toe piece, then I'll only know if the ski turns up.
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#805008 - 06/09/08 01:37 PM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: malcolm777b]
jordop jordop spray'prentice Registered: 02/13/02 Posts: 2671 Loc: The Cheeseburger Picnic	If you're completely popping out, it sounds like your DINs are too low . . . is it not that simple? I've had the experience your describe many times. I have found a few situations that Dynafits simply do not like, one is turning hard on ice and when the condish are hard I frequently crank the DIN. I can still feel the toes release a bit when things get rodeo, but because the heel DIN is higher, the whole boot won't release and typically the boot will re-engage when you reweight it properly. It's one of the few drawbacks of Dynafits, but not enough to make me want to do extended tours on a beef monster like the Naxos. _________________________ Never has your Buick found this forward a gear. -Richard Hugo, "Driving Montana"
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#805695 - 06/11/08 10:40 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: jordop]
Hugh Conway Hugh Conway Pooh-Bah Registered: 11/10/07 Posts: 2059	Originally Posted By: jordop If you're completely popping out, it sounds like your DINs are too low . . . is it not that simple? lemme know how to change the DIN on the toe I've had problems with Dynafit popping off with a skewed mount or when snow clogged the toe fittings or underneath the toe; otherwise smooth sailing _________________________ universally considered the dimmest star in several universes.
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#805742 - 06/11/08 11:19 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: Hugh Conway]
jordop jordop spray'prentice Registered: 02/13/02 Posts: 2671 Loc: The Cheeseburger Picnic	Originally Posted By: Hugh Conway Originally Posted By: jordop If you're completely popping out, it sounds like your DINs are too low . . . is it not that simple? lemme know how to change the DIN on the toe To reiterate: If I weigh say 150lbs, both heel DINs are at 4, and I hit some raunchy ice and my toe pops, my boot is going to release from the heel. If my DINs are both at 12, with said weight and said stanky ice, my toe will release, but my heel will not, non? Have you never experienced the sensation of feeling the toe disengage but then promptly re-engaging when it was reweighted properly? _________________________ Never has your Buick found this forward a gear. -Richard Hugo, "Driving Montana"
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#805754 - 06/11/08 11:32 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: jordop]
rbw1966 rbw1966 spray'prentice Registered: 10/30/00 Posts: 4481	I've had the same problems with my Dynafits. The toe pops but the heel is still locked in. Even with the toe lever popped up ALL the way its released at the toe. It was snow built up in the toe sockets on my boot. Cleaned it out and it was fine. I also forgot to adjust the DIN settings after having the bindings mounted which made the heels release in times when I really didn't want them too. I have leashes AND brakes (the newer Vertical TLT with the yellow-ish mounting plate). Frankly, I think the brakes suck ass. I spent 30 minutes looking for a ski at Ski Bowl after a toe release because I was too lazy to put on my leashes. I dont make that mistake anymore. Disclosure: this is my first season on Dynafits.
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#805772 - 06/11/08 11:52 AM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: rbw1966]
skykilo skykilo old hand Registered: 09/04/02 Posts: 1096 Loc: Seattle	I was on Hood the same day. I had ice forming in the toe pieces on my boots many times. In this scenario, you must remove the ice from the toe pieces on your boots. Sorry you lost your ski. That's a tough way to learn that lesson.
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#805834 - 06/11/08 01:25 PM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: jordop]
Hugh Conway Hugh Conway Pooh-Bah Registered: 11/10/07 Posts: 2059	Originally Posted By: jordop Have you never experienced the sensation of feeling the toe disengage but then promptly re-engaging when it was reweighted properly? I've never experienced that. The only times my Dynafits have come off were a) icing of toe b) yardsale fall _________________________ universally considered the dimmest star in several universes.
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#805876 - 06/11/08 02:05 PM Re: Dynafit binding release [Re: skykilo]
jared_j jared_j member Registered: 09/15/06 Posts: 156 Loc: Trip planning	Drift alert: Is there anything you can apply to the toe holes to inhibit ice collection in there? Some sort of dry lubricant, maybe?
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