Dane Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Pays to remember this is a business to most involved. You want to change things tell them it is bad business. How about this as a start? To: climb@bdel.com, info@metoliusclimbing.com , info@petzl.com Re:Rap Bolting on Prusik Peak "My understanding is your sponsored climbers rap bolted (via hand drill) the headwall there this summer. Avoiding the obvious and unclimbed thin seam. I have supported all of you over the years. How about you inturn support the future of our sport with a public statement condemning such actions as irresponsible and illadvised? "Silence over time is acceptance". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaska73 Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 From the Vertical Times front cover photo description: http://www.accessfund.org/pdf/VerticalTimes55.pdf "Located in Washington's remote Alpine Lakes Wilderness Area, Prusik Peak expemplifies what's at stake when the federal land management agencies consider the legality of fixed anchors." Somebody opened a can of worms... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 I would rather they AVOIDED the obvious seam, and bolted away from it, than that they BOLTED the obvious seam. Is this the case? The wording is kind of ambiguous.Do the bolts follow the seam or not? If not then I wonder what is wrong with it - the bolting? Hand drill placed bolts are legal in wilderness, are they not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 I know the crew involved (if it is in fact the same line) and they have worked that route over several years and if they resorted to a bolt then there was no other conceivable option - these aren't rap bolters, they are bold and gifted free climbers who wouldn't do it otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 I am just wondering why you need another route on a face where there are near infinite gear protected variations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 anyone mind if we put this in the Access forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 How do you guys feel about the rap-anchor bolts on the summit of Prussik? Placed there for people not up to the task of downclimbing the summit block pitch. Do they belong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 I know the crew involved (if it is in fact the same line) and they have worked that route over several years and if they resorted to a bolt then there was no other conceivable option - these aren't rap bolters, they are bold and gifted free climbers who wouldn't do it otherwise. If they were talented, bold and gifted free climbers they would solve the problem without need of placing a bolt. Placing a bolt is this arena is an acts of ungifted cowards. Grow balls. Since it seems otherwise, they should save the route for others that are more talented and bolder, or future generations to solve the problem. Bolts have their place. Prussik and the Enchantments are not the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 How big do thier balls need to be? 20, 30, 40 foot runouts? I wish someone would clarify the bolting on this route, particularly how far apart the bolts are and how close to natural protection they are. How it is such a monstrosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Dane: Have you seen the route? Done the route? Have a name or rating? Know who put it up? Know when they did it? Examined the "seam" in question? How many bolts are there? How far apart are they? How steep is the route? Are there any drilling stances? It seems a bit half-cocked to start writing letters to gear manufacturers before you have all the information. An "aidable thin seam" is different from a free climb, and I don't think bashies, as others have proposed, are ethically superior to bolts. Since the bolts were hand drilled, the legality is not in question, so what's the access issue? It seems to me that you're arguing that a: bolts don't belong in the mountains and b: rap bolting is not a valid means of establishing routes. Am I reading you correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Have you seen the route? Done the route? Have a name or rating? Know who put it up? Know when they did it? Examined the "seam" in question? How many bolts are there? How far apart are they? How steep is the route? Are there any drilling stances? One other question Dane: can you trace your family lineage back to Salem, MA in say... 1692? Dane doesn't know the answers to these questions... that's why he's asking for the answers on the other ban camp page. If he did his homework he would know they weren't/aren't sponsored by Petzl... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I know the crew involved (if it is in fact the same line) and they have worked that route over several years and if they resorted to a bolt then there was no other conceivable option - these aren't rap bolters, they are bold and gifted free climbers who wouldn't do it otherwise. If they were talented, bold and gifted free climbers they would solve the problem without need of placing a bolt. Placing a bolt is this arena is an acts of ungifted cowards. Grow balls. Since it seems otherwise, they should save the route for others that are more talented and bolder, or future generations to solve the problem. Bolts have their place. Prussik and the Enchantments are not the place. There is a lot of potential for hard, quality climbs on Prussik and other rock formations in the Enchantments. However, lots of the crack systems are not continuous and need to be linked over blank faces via the use of bolts. This is appropriate when placed sparingly and on lead, which apparantly was not the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 There is a lot of potential for hard, quality climbs on Prussik and other rock formations in the Enchantments. However, lots of the crack systems are not continuous and need to be linked over blank faces via the use of bolts. Word up. However it is still pure speculation on how the bolts were placed. No one has confirmed: whether or not they were placed on lead how many exist if a power tool was used what features, if any, exist and other important questions that should be answered first before people should start screaming for so called justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Anyone even know where the route goes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Check your pms... I'd post it but I like the idea of our crow bar laden defenders of the faith having to hunt for the bolts in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Just post the shit dude. I don't think it would be that hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Why don't you start with Off White's questions specifically: was it rap bolted with a power drill? Once you have that answer you can determine if your oh-so-important special attention is merited. As my dad always said: trying to skip steps will only result in you falling on your face. And when are you guys going to look into removing the now defunct dam in there? Talk about large scale rock alteration! Blasphemy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Are we talking about a few bolts here and there or long stretches of bolt protected climbing or aid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Really sucks to hear about this rap bolting with a handdrill or power drill when my buddy and i were trying to go groundup. (i am fairly sure that the capt saw them rap bolting) For dan and i the final headwall shut us down and we have not been back for a few years....we planned on finishing it this year but I had to slip hiking in early august hey 'ed, where does the route go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Why don't you start with Off White's questions specifically: was it rap bolted with a power drill? Once you have that answer you can determine if your oh-so-important special attention is merited. As my dad always said: trying to skip steps will only result in you falling on your face. And when are you guys going to look into removing the now defunct dam in there? Talk about large scale rock alteration! Blasphemy! I don't care. post the shit. I don't care if it is powerbolted anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 You may not care, but it's a violation of the Wilderness Act to use a power drill in a Wilderness. Some people may have a problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 The bolts on SWF of Prusik that I am aware of consist of two rap anchors (two 3/8" bolts + hangers + rings) about 35m apart and two single 3/8'" bolts which were right next to an easily protectable crack (0.5 camalot size). I don't care if they were power drilled or notand I don't really care if they were placed on rappel or not, but I do care that they are 35m apart (annoying if they are meant for rappelling rather than climbing) and that the two single bolts are right next to a protectable crack . I saw these bolts when Gary_Yngve and I got off-route (too far west) trying to climb the SF or Prusik this summer. Maybe these aren't the same bolts ya'll are talking about, but I assume they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Hauling a crowbar up to remove bolts next to a crack will be hard work. I will pledge some for the restoration effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 You may not care, but it's a violation of the Wilderness Act to use a power drill in a Wilderness. Some people may have a problem with that. What I was saying is that I am pissed regardless of what they used to drill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 What I was saying is that I am pissed regardless of what they used to drill. But WHAT are you pissed about? Doesn't seem that anyone really knows the answers to the questions above. How can you get on your high horse without knowing the facts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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